citizenzen
Apr 22, 10:00 AM
... teach our kids why rome fell ...
You mean because they passed laws against homosexuality?
While I find that a little simplistic, if you really want to run with that theory that's your choice.
Homosexuality in ancient Rome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Rome)
Homosexuality in ancient Rome features dispassionately in many literary works, poems, graffiti and in comments, for example, on the sexual predilections of single emperors: Edward Gibbon famously observed that "of the first fifteen emperors Claudius was the only one whose taste in love was entirely correct". Surviving graphic representations are, on the other hand, rarer in ancient Rome than in classical Greece. Attitudes toward homosexuality changed over time ranging from the matter-of-fact acceptance of Republican Rome and the pagan Empire to rising condemnation, exampled by the Athenian Sextus Empiricus, who asserted that άρρενομιζία was outlawed in Rome— and in Athens, too!— and Cyprian.
The term homosexuality is anachronistic for the ancient world, since there is no single word in either Latin or ancient Greek with the same meaning as the modern concept of homosexuality, nor was there any sense that a man was defined by his gender choices in love-making; "in the ancient world so few people cared to categorize their contemporaries on the basis of the gender to which they were erotically attracted that no dichotomy to express this distinction was in common use", James Boswell has noted.
...
Later Empire
The rise of statutes legislating against homosexuality begins during the social crisis of the 3rd century, when a series of laws were promulgated regulating various aspects of homosexual relations, from the statutory rape of minors to gay marriages. By the sixth century homosexual relations were expressly prohibited for the first time, as Procopius notes.
On a related note, a search of the string "homo" in the article The Decline of Rome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_rome) comes up with zero results.
You gotta do better than that bassfingers. :rolleyes:
You mean because they passed laws against homosexuality?
While I find that a little simplistic, if you really want to run with that theory that's your choice.
Homosexuality in ancient Rome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Rome)
Homosexuality in ancient Rome features dispassionately in many literary works, poems, graffiti and in comments, for example, on the sexual predilections of single emperors: Edward Gibbon famously observed that "of the first fifteen emperors Claudius was the only one whose taste in love was entirely correct". Surviving graphic representations are, on the other hand, rarer in ancient Rome than in classical Greece. Attitudes toward homosexuality changed over time ranging from the matter-of-fact acceptance of Republican Rome and the pagan Empire to rising condemnation, exampled by the Athenian Sextus Empiricus, who asserted that άρρενομιζία was outlawed in Rome— and in Athens, too!— and Cyprian.
The term homosexuality is anachronistic for the ancient world, since there is no single word in either Latin or ancient Greek with the same meaning as the modern concept of homosexuality, nor was there any sense that a man was defined by his gender choices in love-making; "in the ancient world so few people cared to categorize their contemporaries on the basis of the gender to which they were erotically attracted that no dichotomy to express this distinction was in common use", James Boswell has noted.
...
Later Empire
The rise of statutes legislating against homosexuality begins during the social crisis of the 3rd century, when a series of laws were promulgated regulating various aspects of homosexual relations, from the statutory rape of minors to gay marriages. By the sixth century homosexual relations were expressly prohibited for the first time, as Procopius notes.
On a related note, a search of the string "homo" in the article The Decline of Rome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_rome) comes up with zero results.
You gotta do better than that bassfingers. :rolleyes:
Dagless
Apr 23, 06:12 PM
Oh yay! Another app-store rip off years after the OSX one has debuted.
Don't you mean "Oh yay, another rip off of Steam, XBLA store, Impulse, Gamersgate, PSN, WiiWare or [insert any of the other app download stores that existed years before any of Apple's download stores]."
Hmm?
Don't you mean "Oh yay, another rip off of Steam, XBLA store, Impulse, Gamersgate, PSN, WiiWare or [insert any of the other app download stores that existed years before any of Apple's download stores]."
Hmm?
dethmaShine
Apr 13, 06:13 AM
My experience has been the exact opposite with the Mac, whether its trying to access a share on one of my other computers (my wife uses a PC) or accessing network resources on my work's network.
When in windows 7 it "just worked" I had no need to mess with eth0, drivers or any manually set up a network. I was able to connect to the resource and use it. Also it was much faster.
It has always been the same with the mac. Just go to the finder and look for shared computers.
OR
Taskbar: 'Go To Server/Computer'
OR
ssh/ftp > prostuff-not required
I had issues with OSX, that I was unable to access any shared files from my wife's computer. Accessing my work stuff was a bit easier but was SLOW, painfully slow. I pull up a folder with a couple hundred files, and I can easily sit there for well over 10 minutes while OSX does it thing. Windows, just a couple of minutes.
Report bugs. Are you comparing b/w OSX <-> Windows and Windows <-> Windows?
Networking is where windows has a clear advantage of OSX, in part because many (most?) enterprise networks are windows based, at least from my experience.
You are confusing stuff.
Given the design of windows, there's zero chance of that, it would require a complete rewrite and the folks at MS really don't see the design of windows being flawed. Especially since they see the marketshare being what it is - kind of like why fix it if it isn't broke mentality.
Fair enough.
When in windows 7 it "just worked" I had no need to mess with eth0, drivers or any manually set up a network. I was able to connect to the resource and use it. Also it was much faster.
It has always been the same with the mac. Just go to the finder and look for shared computers.
OR
Taskbar: 'Go To Server/Computer'
OR
ssh/ftp > prostuff-not required
I had issues with OSX, that I was unable to access any shared files from my wife's computer. Accessing my work stuff was a bit easier but was SLOW, painfully slow. I pull up a folder with a couple hundred files, and I can easily sit there for well over 10 minutes while OSX does it thing. Windows, just a couple of minutes.
Report bugs. Are you comparing b/w OSX <-> Windows and Windows <-> Windows?
Networking is where windows has a clear advantage of OSX, in part because many (most?) enterprise networks are windows based, at least from my experience.
You are confusing stuff.
Given the design of windows, there's zero chance of that, it would require a complete rewrite and the folks at MS really don't see the design of windows being flawed. Especially since they see the marketshare being what it is - kind of like why fix it if it isn't broke mentality.
Fair enough.
MacRumors
Sep 12, 07:17 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)
Apple's iTunes Music Store has gone down and has been replaced with a black screen with the simple words:
It's Showtime
The iTunes Store is being updated
Apple is widely expected to deliver an iTunes Movie service today at their media event.
Apple's iTunes Music Store has gone down and has been replaced with a black screen with the simple words:
It's Showtime
The iTunes Store is being updated
Apple is widely expected to deliver an iTunes Movie service today at their media event.
skunk
Aug 12, 05:49 AM
would anyone care to explain why the uk price for a 30" cinema display is �1549 whereas in the US it is $1999 (around �1054.71) even with VAT included this still only comes to �1,239.28 - so why the huge margin...I guess it's not called rip-off Britain for nothing eh...Excluding VAT, my edu disc price is �1,213.00. I'm sorely tempted to order.
joeboy_45101
Nov 16, 10:35 PM
Don't forget! It took Intel 6 years to really surpass AMD on performance. The current AMD Athlon is no slouch either. If it was a choice between the Athlon 64 or a Pentium 4, like it was a year ago, many here would be jumping for joy over a switch to AMD.
The reality is ,though, that Apple seems pretty satisfied with Intel right now and I believe they made the right choice. If Apple does decide to use AMD processors then it would probably be for the iTV or the Mac Mini. These things won't be competing on raw power but on quality and price. An order I believe AMD can fill.
The reality is ,though, that Apple seems pretty satisfied with Intel right now and I believe they made the right choice. If Apple does decide to use AMD processors then it would probably be for the iTV or the Mac Mini. These things won't be competing on raw power but on quality and price. An order I believe AMD can fill.
maflynn
Apr 8, 09:43 AM
MS still playing catchup by the looks of the feature list in my opinion.
Actually its the other way around. Windows 7 has leap frogged apple in terms of functionality, UI and usability.
Apple needs to play catch up by adding some features to OSX.
Actually its the other way around. Windows 7 has leap frogged apple in terms of functionality, UI and usability.
Apple needs to play catch up by adding some features to OSX.
maclaptop
Apr 16, 10:56 PM
And different browsers didn't appear for a long while I thought.
True. This is due to Apples desire to confine users to Safari.
Their dictatorial approach worked for quite some time. Finally user push back was too much, and Apple caved.
True. This is due to Apples desire to confine users to Safari.
Their dictatorial approach worked for quite some time. Finally user push back was too much, and Apple caved.
twoodcc
Dec 10, 04:11 PM
Yeah, that is not good. Thermal paste perhaps?
well it could be. i didn't reapple any. and the max temp on any core has been 89 C
well it could be. i didn't reapple any. and the max temp on any core has been 89 C
emoeric
Dec 13, 11:07 AM
Haha, nope.
This is the company that released an EDGE phone as it's first model. No way they're jumping to LTE this early in the game.
Before my impending question...I agree with Warbrain here. The proof is across the board when it comes to Apple and their products. The didn't adopt 3g when it was out for a while and also didnt adopt wireless N technology for routers for a long time. Apple likes to perfect the technology first.
Now, onto my question. Sorta belongs here... My white iphone 3GS 32gb just bit the dust. I have squaretrade and they are allowing me a replacement phone. sweet! The trick is do I get the iphone that is out right now, wait til january to see if they update the skin/ casing of the existing iphone4 (due to a verizon announcement and in turn update AT&T iphone as well) or do I postpone and wait until summer 2011?
I find waiting until 2011 almost impossible and wonder if they are going to announce Iphone 5. Or will they do an Iphone4GS, with even faster network speeds, bigger screen, blah blah blah. Will the update be critical (iphone 5 rumors of location based computing, paying with the swipe of a phone)?
I find the second option to be most feasible, but would like to test out the online community.
Thanks!
-Eric
This is the company that released an EDGE phone as it's first model. No way they're jumping to LTE this early in the game.
Before my impending question...I agree with Warbrain here. The proof is across the board when it comes to Apple and their products. The didn't adopt 3g when it was out for a while and also didnt adopt wireless N technology for routers for a long time. Apple likes to perfect the technology first.
Now, onto my question. Sorta belongs here... My white iphone 3GS 32gb just bit the dust. I have squaretrade and they are allowing me a replacement phone. sweet! The trick is do I get the iphone that is out right now, wait til january to see if they update the skin/ casing of the existing iphone4 (due to a verizon announcement and in turn update AT&T iphone as well) or do I postpone and wait until summer 2011?
I find waiting until 2011 almost impossible and wonder if they are going to announce Iphone 5. Or will they do an Iphone4GS, with even faster network speeds, bigger screen, blah blah blah. Will the update be critical (iphone 5 rumors of location based computing, paying with the swipe of a phone)?
I find the second option to be most feasible, but would like to test out the online community.
Thanks!
-Eric
r.j.s
Jan 13, 04:09 PM
As someone who acts as a media liaison, if a media outlet did something along those lines at one of my functions, and bragged about it, they would be banned for a very, very long time from coming back to any of our events.
geerlingguy
Oct 2, 02:59 PM
As usual, any hack that will come out will probably be hard to use, and <1% of the general computer-using population will ever use it. I don't see this as a big threat, really...
I'd say less than 10% of the general computer-using population even *heard* of the previous iTunes 'Play Fair' stuff (such as Hymn, Harmony, etc.), much less even thought of using it. Don't believe me? Ask your Mom, Grandma, non-geek friends, etc.
More people have heard of the 'DeCSS' programs, but, again, how many have actually used them? I'd say less than 1% of the computer-using public. And most of these people, like me, would only use it to exercise 'fair use' rights (i.e. I'm going on a plane trip, and I rip a DVD I own to my HD to save battery power, then I delete the files after watching it).
I'd say less than 10% of the general computer-using population even *heard* of the previous iTunes 'Play Fair' stuff (such as Hymn, Harmony, etc.), much less even thought of using it. Don't believe me? Ask your Mom, Grandma, non-geek friends, etc.
More people have heard of the 'DeCSS' programs, but, again, how many have actually used them? I'd say less than 1% of the computer-using public. And most of these people, like me, would only use it to exercise 'fair use' rights (i.e. I'm going on a plane trip, and I rip a DVD I own to my HD to save battery power, then I delete the files after watching it).
AndrewR23
Mar 17, 01:40 AM
lol.
ten-oak-druid
Apr 15, 10:05 PM
iPhone did nothing new. It just took some popular features and combined them. It was more of a game changer due to it being made by apple.
The iphone defined the real smart phone we know today.
The iphone defined the real smart phone we know today.
MacRumors
Oct 10, 04:22 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)
Engadget claims that Apple is ready to announce their rumored video/wireless iPod (http://www.engadget.com/2006/10/10/apple-about-to-announce-wireless-video-ipod/) in the "very near future," which the site takes to mean before the end of the year. According to the report, the much-hyped widescreen iPod would contain wireless connectivity, however which specific technology would be used was not detailed.
Meanwhile, ThinkSecret has gone back (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/09/20060916223336.shtml) and forth (http://notes.thinksecret.com/secretnotes/0609secretnote2.shtml) on the possibility of the device coming before the new year. While quoting "reliable" sources, Endgadet has repeatedly been off the mark with their Apple phone rumors, which may give insight into how good the site's sources are at Apple (claims of the iPhone in August (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/07/20060729213347.shtml), fake 'iChat Mobile' pics (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/08/20060802215346.shtml)).
Engadget claims that Apple is ready to announce their rumored video/wireless iPod (http://www.engadget.com/2006/10/10/apple-about-to-announce-wireless-video-ipod/) in the "very near future," which the site takes to mean before the end of the year. According to the report, the much-hyped widescreen iPod would contain wireless connectivity, however which specific technology would be used was not detailed.
Meanwhile, ThinkSecret has gone back (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/09/20060916223336.shtml) and forth (http://notes.thinksecret.com/secretnotes/0609secretnote2.shtml) on the possibility of the device coming before the new year. While quoting "reliable" sources, Endgadet has repeatedly been off the mark with their Apple phone rumors, which may give insight into how good the site's sources are at Apple (claims of the iPhone in August (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/07/20060729213347.shtml), fake 'iChat Mobile' pics (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/08/20060802215346.shtml)).
wrldwzrd89
Apr 7, 09:24 AM
Hello all! This is an interesting debate... I think both OSes will be powerhouses by the time they're released. However... Microsoft's upping the ante with Windows 8, it seems. Had I seen this thread, I would have posted this (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1132758) here, instead... oh well.
mdriftmeyer
Apr 29, 07:36 PM
They won't make Lion "uninstallable" on it. But it might be "unbearable" for all but the most casual of users. ;)
On a side note, I've noticed there's now a "Show downloads" button to the left of the Search Field:
Image (http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=283487&stc=1&d=1304105242)
You mean to the right of the search field, and when Lion is released w/o dbg libs running the Ram requirements and performance will improve smoothly for the Airs to run just fine.
On a side note, I've noticed there's now a "Show downloads" button to the left of the Search Field:
Image (http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=283487&stc=1&d=1304105242)
You mean to the right of the search field, and when Lion is released w/o dbg libs running the Ram requirements and performance will improve smoothly for the Airs to run just fine.
LightSpeed1
Apr 13, 03:19 PM
thought about getting those but im getting the samson 3i's instead. lmk how they areSure thing.What made you choose the samson's over the swans?
Nekbeth
Apr 27, 11:34 AM
Yes, that's exactly what I want to accomplish dejo.
Please, enlighten me .. what is the difference between the countdown-timer and NSTimer?. I though you must use NSTimer to get a countdown or count up timer. Feel free to explain or not, you can also give me link or reference, I'll read it. I want to learn all those stuff.
Please, enlighten me .. what is the difference between the countdown-timer and NSTimer?. I though you must use NSTimer to get a countdown or count up timer. Feel free to explain or not, you can also give me link or reference, I'll read it. I want to learn all those stuff.
tekker
May 3, 09:34 PM
I'll buy one when it gets a capacitive pressure based screen/stylus (Like the HTC Flyer)
stoid
Aug 9, 06:54 PM
Would someone who bought what they assume to be the newer
version of this display with improve brightness and contrast
please post part of your serial number.
Mine: 2A6211XXXXX (Xs represents the rest of my number)
date of manufacture: May 2006
Determined from the decoder at:
http://www.chipmunk.nl/klantenservice/applemodel.html
I'm trying to detemine if the one I just bought is in this new batch.
And if it isn't I want to return it quickly.
I have 15 days to return it and exchange if I don't want this display to the store
where I bought it (not from an Apple store).
Mine is 2A6241XXXXX
manufacture date: June 2006
version of this display with improve brightness and contrast
please post part of your serial number.
Mine: 2A6211XXXXX (Xs represents the rest of my number)
date of manufacture: May 2006
Determined from the decoder at:
http://www.chipmunk.nl/klantenservice/applemodel.html
I'm trying to detemine if the one I just bought is in this new batch.
And if it isn't I want to return it quickly.
I have 15 days to return it and exchange if I don't want this display to the store
where I bought it (not from an Apple store).
Mine is 2A6241XXXXX
manufacture date: June 2006
twoodcc
May 12, 09:04 PM
if the machines resboot then there is no problem with remote login. setup some sort of VNC server that opens once the machine starts up and away you go! i can do that to any of my machines from external sites - works a treat :D
true, but if it crashes then there's nothing i can do. and usually if it crashes or restarts, to fix the problem i have to get into the BIOS. but remote login would be good if the power flickers (like today)
thats a hell of alot of power!!!!! atm i only have my i7 iMac - 4 cores, and crappy E4600 @2.4ghz lol. the PC has a 8500GT - can that be used in any way? it worked with BOINC when i used to do SETI. it was about 2x faster then my CPU haha.
thanks. all of those have 4 real cores, 8 logical. same as your iMac. the difference is mine are all overclocked.
hey it wouldn't hurt to download the gpu client and see if it works with that card. it might
true, but if it crashes then there's nothing i can do. and usually if it crashes or restarts, to fix the problem i have to get into the BIOS. but remote login would be good if the power flickers (like today)
thats a hell of alot of power!!!!! atm i only have my i7 iMac - 4 cores, and crappy E4600 @2.4ghz lol. the PC has a 8500GT - can that be used in any way? it worked with BOINC when i used to do SETI. it was about 2x faster then my CPU haha.
thanks. all of those have 4 real cores, 8 logical. same as your iMac. the difference is mine are all overclocked.
hey it wouldn't hurt to download the gpu client and see if it works with that card. it might
Avatar74
Jan 15, 01:57 PM
Personally, I think the expectations here are bordering on ridiculous. Also, when you have everyone looking to Steve Jobs for religious validation, lining up hours in advance for a freaking keynote speech... you're bound to disappoint yourself.
Frankly, Apple still has the most impressive portfolio of products, and the innovations announced today still up the bar. It's foolish to expect an iPod or an iPhone scale innovation every year from any company, even Apple.
And face it... because you and I aren't everyone, they aren't going to please everyone.
As I figured when it came out, I think the real winner here is AppleTV... there's a reason for that.
We're on the edge of a technological convergence of entertainment media. Apple appears to be moving slowly away from the concept of removable storage to wireless streaming, and AppleTV is no small part of that.
Steve Jobs said it would eventually be the 4th leg in their portfolio... And with the rentals model, and the ability to search and purchase movies and music from the interface, along with all its other features, AppleTV is unlocking a door that others are already committing to follow...including Netflix and LG.
The one problem in picking that lock for Apple has been HD... and they're clearly reading the public sentiment and working on upping the ante with HD and SD viewable content on AppleTV, iPod, iPhone, Mac, PC, etc.
This is really the future of technology... and one of Apple's big goals... to connect your office, your living room and your mobile existence all together.
But if you were expecting it all to happen at once... think again. The public is not ready for that, and the R&D costs alone, plus deployment, would be tremendous and if you operate like Microsoft you find yourself spending 7 years to deploy a bigger leap only to find out it's a dud. Apple is smart for taking kiddie steps before they run with it.
The next kiddie step, I suspect, is multitouch... Granted, I'm sure some were hoping for a full blown multitouch display. I know I was.. but not everyone is ready for that experience just yet. In fact, I'd say a lot of people are't.
So Apple is introducing it gradually... first Mighty Mouse (yes, this is a capacitance sensing surface), then iPhone, now the multitouch trackpad... sooner or later they're going to have enough public reaction to tell them when the right time to go full-throttle will be.
That's part of the game, guys, they release a step below the "product to end all products" that you are asking of them so they can figure out what works, what doesnt, and then invest in the improvements. Otherwise, they could go broke pretty damn quickly... and then you're left with nothing to look forward to except the next Toshiba POS laptop or the next iteration of Windows sometime 15 years from now...
So keep voicing the concerns, but my feeling is... If you want to do more than just vent and actually have your concerns taken as serious criticism and not the ravings of a disappointed fanboy, try voicing them constructively, and at the same time know the old adage... caveat emptor... let the buyer beware. No one puts a gun to your head to buy this stuff. Before you go shelling out for gadgets or getting your expectations up, do some research and lower your expectations.
I'm just happy that the company that introduced me to computers 30 years ago is still around making great hardware.
Frankly, Apple still has the most impressive portfolio of products, and the innovations announced today still up the bar. It's foolish to expect an iPod or an iPhone scale innovation every year from any company, even Apple.
And face it... because you and I aren't everyone, they aren't going to please everyone.
As I figured when it came out, I think the real winner here is AppleTV... there's a reason for that.
We're on the edge of a technological convergence of entertainment media. Apple appears to be moving slowly away from the concept of removable storage to wireless streaming, and AppleTV is no small part of that.
Steve Jobs said it would eventually be the 4th leg in their portfolio... And with the rentals model, and the ability to search and purchase movies and music from the interface, along with all its other features, AppleTV is unlocking a door that others are already committing to follow...including Netflix and LG.
The one problem in picking that lock for Apple has been HD... and they're clearly reading the public sentiment and working on upping the ante with HD and SD viewable content on AppleTV, iPod, iPhone, Mac, PC, etc.
This is really the future of technology... and one of Apple's big goals... to connect your office, your living room and your mobile existence all together.
But if you were expecting it all to happen at once... think again. The public is not ready for that, and the R&D costs alone, plus deployment, would be tremendous and if you operate like Microsoft you find yourself spending 7 years to deploy a bigger leap only to find out it's a dud. Apple is smart for taking kiddie steps before they run with it.
The next kiddie step, I suspect, is multitouch... Granted, I'm sure some were hoping for a full blown multitouch display. I know I was.. but not everyone is ready for that experience just yet. In fact, I'd say a lot of people are't.
So Apple is introducing it gradually... first Mighty Mouse (yes, this is a capacitance sensing surface), then iPhone, now the multitouch trackpad... sooner or later they're going to have enough public reaction to tell them when the right time to go full-throttle will be.
That's part of the game, guys, they release a step below the "product to end all products" that you are asking of them so they can figure out what works, what doesnt, and then invest in the improvements. Otherwise, they could go broke pretty damn quickly... and then you're left with nothing to look forward to except the next Toshiba POS laptop or the next iteration of Windows sometime 15 years from now...
So keep voicing the concerns, but my feeling is... If you want to do more than just vent and actually have your concerns taken as serious criticism and not the ravings of a disappointed fanboy, try voicing them constructively, and at the same time know the old adage... caveat emptor... let the buyer beware. No one puts a gun to your head to buy this stuff. Before you go shelling out for gadgets or getting your expectations up, do some research and lower your expectations.
I'm just happy that the company that introduced me to computers 30 years ago is still around making great hardware.
Stella
Jan 10, 06:48 PM
What are your predictions for this years MacWorld?
A lot of whining on these forums the second they reopen.
Other than that certainty:
MacBook Pro update - maybe new enclosure
Mac Mini update ( minor and silent )
Some major new product ( i.e., ultra mobile laptop )
iPhone SDK ( crippled, of course )
I'm hoping for new mouse
Hopefully not a long iPhone related presentation borefest
A lot of whining on these forums the second they reopen.
Other than that certainty:
MacBook Pro update - maybe new enclosure
Mac Mini update ( minor and silent )
Some major new product ( i.e., ultra mobile laptop )
iPhone SDK ( crippled, of course )
I'm hoping for new mouse
Hopefully not a long iPhone related presentation borefest
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