ItIsNotFunny
11-03 03:16 PM
Please clarify where exactly you are going and whats your proposal. Please be more objective and cut bureaucratic statements.
All,
This is a non issue now for all practical purpose because of recent Job Zone change for Computer Information Manager.
The porting to begin with was unethical in our mind and we took a stand. We were challanged by several people on this forum but they did not realize the extent of our convictions.
Unlike others with their lawsuits Ideas, in this case we did follow up on this issue by contacting DOL in early September with our greivance along with a famous lawyer on our side. Enclosed is our letter to Secretary of Labor Elaine L. Chao and other senior officials. We would like to think that our effort has contributed to the recent change in the Job Zones for Computer Information Manager, as that was specifically mentioned in our letter.. This was not exactly our intention as we just wanted DOL to put some more control around the process. Hence our apologies for the unintended consequences of this effort on the future applicants.
Thanks to these members who actively/morally supported us.
GCtest, abhijitrajan, Abhinaym, computer_gig, django.stone, jindhal, jonty_11, kalinga_sena, Karthikthiru, kevinkris, Leo07, newbie2020, nilendu, pmb76, prioritydate, rahulp, Still Waiting, vkannan and several others
Note:
We have further indication that any research position may be upgraded to Zone 5.
US educated may be viewed favorably espeicially in non IT engineering positions
All,
This is a non issue now for all practical purpose because of recent Job Zone change for Computer Information Manager.
The porting to begin with was unethical in our mind and we took a stand. We were challanged by several people on this forum but they did not realize the extent of our convictions.
Unlike others with their lawsuits Ideas, in this case we did follow up on this issue by contacting DOL in early September with our greivance along with a famous lawyer on our side. Enclosed is our letter to Secretary of Labor Elaine L. Chao and other senior officials. We would like to think that our effort has contributed to the recent change in the Job Zones for Computer Information Manager, as that was specifically mentioned in our letter.. This was not exactly our intention as we just wanted DOL to put some more control around the process. Hence our apologies for the unintended consequences of this effort on the future applicants.
Thanks to these members who actively/morally supported us.
GCtest, abhijitrajan, Abhinaym, computer_gig, django.stone, jindhal, jonty_11, kalinga_sena, Karthikthiru, kevinkris, Leo07, newbie2020, nilendu, pmb76, prioritydate, rahulp, Still Waiting, vkannan and several others
Note:
We have further indication that any research position may be upgraded to Zone 5.
US educated may be viewed favorably espeicially in non IT engineering positions
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Hunter
05-09 05:30 AM
I guess the genuine companies will move the H1/L1 staff abroad along with positions to meet this requirements if at all this becomes law. What that means is more job loss in US. (Whether US has 50% of total "high skilled" work force necessary to run the operations of all the companies is another important question... I do not think so, may be the senators are considering highschool dropouts to handle the "high skilled" jobs :), I read somewhere about a recent survey and only 27% of 25-45 age group of population has a college degree in all discipline. I will try to find the link)
Over all, I see this move by senators as short sited and will prove disastrus to America in long run given the fact that no other country in the world is as dependent on technology / research and development as US.
I also saw a quote from one of the Indian offshoring company CEOs that only 25% of Indian engineers are employable. May be highschool dropouts in US may not be that bad when contrasted against that statistics, after all Bill Gates was also a dropout. Also the dime-a-dozen so-called "engineering colleges" in India that feed Indian offshoring companies are known for QUANTITY and not QUALITY. Indian students go for (or their parents pay for) those courses offered in those colleges precisely because they offer a better future - i.e. they feel they get a good ROI on their investment, even if they don't have the interest or aptitude for Computer Science or engineering. These days, these facts are known to a lot of americans working in IT.
If H1/L1 visa is restricted, that will give an incentive for americans to acquire a degree in science/engineering, just like the indian students taking courses in india offering a better ROI, as they get the feeling that they won't be discriminated in a job and investing $$$ in education is not going to be wasted. This is what President Obama also emphasized today about the need for fundamental change in unemployment allowances helping to retrain the laid-off workers.
It will no doubt cut into the obscene profit margins of TCS/INFY etc., as they will be forced to play by the rules.
Over all, I see this move by senators as short sited and will prove disastrus to America in long run given the fact that no other country in the world is as dependent on technology / research and development as US.
I also saw a quote from one of the Indian offshoring company CEOs that only 25% of Indian engineers are employable. May be highschool dropouts in US may not be that bad when contrasted against that statistics, after all Bill Gates was also a dropout. Also the dime-a-dozen so-called "engineering colleges" in India that feed Indian offshoring companies are known for QUANTITY and not QUALITY. Indian students go for (or their parents pay for) those courses offered in those colleges precisely because they offer a better future - i.e. they feel they get a good ROI on their investment, even if they don't have the interest or aptitude for Computer Science or engineering. These days, these facts are known to a lot of americans working in IT.
If H1/L1 visa is restricted, that will give an incentive for americans to acquire a degree in science/engineering, just like the indian students taking courses in india offering a better ROI, as they get the feeling that they won't be discriminated in a job and investing $$$ in education is not going to be wasted. This is what President Obama also emphasized today about the need for fundamental change in unemployment allowances helping to retrain the laid-off workers.
It will no doubt cut into the obscene profit margins of TCS/INFY etc., as they will be forced to play by the rules.
fcres
07-31 03:44 PM
1. If a Receipt Number is issued for a I-485, does it necessarily mean that the case won't outright be rejected for a missing document/ evidence, but instead an RFE will be issued?
2. When a receipt number is issued for a I-485, and if we send out the missing document/initial evidence using the allocated A#, is there a good likelihood that the evidence/document will make it to the appropriate file?
Answers to these will help make a decision on filing multiple I-485's where the first I-485 missed some initial evidence.
Thanks!
One more thing: I was about to make another private consultation call today. I pledge contributing $200 if I find a concrete answer to this issue without having to consult one more lawyer.
My laywer ( a known one, but not the regulars here) also didn't include EVL. When i asked him about it, he said whether we include it now or not, they will issue an RFE at the time of adjudication. I was content with that, but after reading about it more here, i pressed him again about the issue and the new memo. He said he does not foresee a denial because of this, but if i'm worried we will send the EVL along with a cover letter and the RN. But filing another 485 is not advisable. I'm working on the EVL, and once he is less busy after Aug 17th i will ask him to send it. And i hope it will make it to the right file if we include the RN and A#, just like replying to an RFE.
btw, to answer #1, i did get RN so i would think the case may not be outright rejected for missing evidence. I did FP and my LUD was changed for 485 and 131. I filed 765 later and that also has an LUD after FP.
2. When a receipt number is issued for a I-485, and if we send out the missing document/initial evidence using the allocated A#, is there a good likelihood that the evidence/document will make it to the appropriate file?
Answers to these will help make a decision on filing multiple I-485's where the first I-485 missed some initial evidence.
Thanks!
One more thing: I was about to make another private consultation call today. I pledge contributing $200 if I find a concrete answer to this issue without having to consult one more lawyer.
My laywer ( a known one, but not the regulars here) also didn't include EVL. When i asked him about it, he said whether we include it now or not, they will issue an RFE at the time of adjudication. I was content with that, but after reading about it more here, i pressed him again about the issue and the new memo. He said he does not foresee a denial because of this, but if i'm worried we will send the EVL along with a cover letter and the RN. But filing another 485 is not advisable. I'm working on the EVL, and once he is less busy after Aug 17th i will ask him to send it. And i hope it will make it to the right file if we include the RN and A#, just like replying to an RFE.
btw, to answer #1, i did get RN so i would think the case may not be outright rejected for missing evidence. I did FP and my LUD was changed for 485 and 131. I filed 765 later and that also has an LUD after FP.
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GCKaMaara
01-09 01:46 PM
There is a rumor that Obama is considering Citizenship for people who have paid Income Tax for a certain period. Core is it possible to dig more on this and find if it is just a rumor?
hmmmmmmmm.
Googled. Found nothing! Can you post the URL?
hmmmmmmmm.
Googled. Found nothing! Can you post the URL?
more...
apnair2002
01-24 07:56 PM
This is not good news. We dont know what happens in the next few weeks. Immigration is not a very high priority for everybody. The closer we go to elections the more the chances for other issues to creep into schedule. I hope they will atleast attach unused VISA numbers to some bill and tackle the immigration beast when they intend to.
--MC
01/24/2006: AILA Reports Push-Back of Senate Comprehensive Immigration Reform Debate Schedules
AILA reported last week that the Senate Judiciary Committee could start immigration reform debates as early as February 2, but now it reports that the Senate Committee action on immigration legislation may be pushed back until later in February or perhaps into March.
There are a few immigration portals in the community that monitor and share opinions and news on the comprehensive immigration reform legislation. The following three sites are particularly helpful: www.immigrationvoice.org, www.isnamerica.org, www.immigrationportal.com.
We will post the summary of the pending comprehensive immigration bills shortly. Please stay tuned
--MC
01/24/2006: AILA Reports Push-Back of Senate Comprehensive Immigration Reform Debate Schedules
AILA reported last week that the Senate Judiciary Committee could start immigration reform debates as early as February 2, but now it reports that the Senate Committee action on immigration legislation may be pushed back until later in February or perhaps into March.
There are a few immigration portals in the community that monitor and share opinions and news on the comprehensive immigration reform legislation. The following three sites are particularly helpful: www.immigrationvoice.org, www.isnamerica.org, www.immigrationportal.com.
We will post the summary of the pending comprehensive immigration bills shortly. Please stay tuned
gccovet
11-24 04:17 PM
My co-worker sent emails and letters today.
GCCovet.
GCCovet.
more...
gc_buddy
11-12 02:53 PM
I have recieved Omb response since I partificipated in the campaign. But, I have not used AC21 yet. Will be contacting PD_Recap for further direction.
Those who are willing to provide their denial info (no name or address - everything can be scratched - just the letter), please send PM to pd_recapturing
Those who received Ombudsman responses to send denial info - please contact pd_recapturing via a PM (private message)
Those who are willing to provide their denial info (no name or address - everything can be scratched - just the letter), please send PM to pd_recapturing
Those who received Ombudsman responses to send denial info - please contact pd_recapturing via a PM (private message)
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desitechie
09-24 06:49 PM
Do they offer unlimited india plan? I never heard of it.
I know teleblend offers unlimited india plan for 49.99 per month. This is almost double to vonage.
ALLVOI is like 1300 minutes for 19.99/month.
I know teleblend offers unlimited india plan for 49.99 per month. This is almost double to vonage.
ALLVOI is like 1300 minutes for 19.99/month.
more...
walking_dude
01-11 02:42 PM
According to ALIPAC every immigrant is 'illegal'. Who cares? They don't make the laws in this country.
I don't understand where is the conflict here. The website above - ALIPAC - is "Americans for Legal Immigration". From what I read in their website, they want to stop illegal immigration and they support legal immigration. Unless they have a hidden agenda, they should be supporting IV's letter campaign.
How is this in conflict? Am I missing something?
I don't understand where is the conflict here. The website above - ALIPAC - is "Americans for Legal Immigration". From what I read in their website, they want to stop illegal immigration and they support legal immigration. Unless they have a hidden agenda, they should be supporting IV's letter campaign.
How is this in conflict? Am I missing something?
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drirshad
01-09 01:43 PM
DOW has crossed the 11,000 mark that is good for the economy .......
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SunnySurya
08-07 04:05 PM
The point was about abusing the system to get ahead in the line. In that way labor sub shares similarity with PD porting. If a person who landed yesterday fits the job profile and the law allowed it , then what's wrong.
On the other hand if those labor are sold for a price then it is serious problem. And thats why Lab Sub was eleminated. Now thats what is going to happen (and happening) in PD porting case.
Your Logic is Illogical in the first place...
In Labor substitution, a person who lands in US last friday, could substitute a labor and get ahead in line of a 2002 guy.
In Porting case he/she is the original beneficiary. So you comparing Porting to Labor Substitution is totally illogical...
On the other hand if those labor are sold for a price then it is serious problem. And thats why Lab Sub was eleminated. Now thats what is going to happen (and happening) in PD porting case.
Your Logic is Illogical in the first place...
In Labor substitution, a person who lands in US last friday, could substitute a labor and get ahead in line of a 2002 guy.
In Porting case he/she is the original beneficiary. So you comparing Porting to Labor Substitution is totally illogical...
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nkavjs
09-25 02:29 PM
Good idea.. Can we come up with Joint signed E-letter with info and mail it to these guys doing nothing with our 2nd July applications.
They shd all be flown to Bermuda triangle (ony after they clear our pending applications)
They shd all be flown to Bermuda triangle (ony after they clear our pending applications)
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tejonidhi
09-09 03:46 PM
I called the members and most of the calls went to voicemail. Left a message urging them to support the bill. I also started posting this in our university Indian student Association group so that they can start calling. I thank IV for the telephone numbers.
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kcforgc
05-09 09:55 PM
If you are offended, I don't give a DAMN!! I know about India very well and has been to India many a times. I know very well about the indian corruption which has no comparison with any country in the developed world. All you have to look at is the suveys from various NGOs that track corruption at various countries in the world and you can see where India ranks relative to US or UK
Hunter dude..this is not the right platform for you to promote your racist agenda. And looking at your attitude I don't give a DAMN SH*** what you think or feel. Go find a job and update your skills. Are you afraid of competition? There is competition in any field you choose not just IT.
This is not a forum for you ANTIs...you low life.
Hunter dude..this is not the right platform for you to promote your racist agenda. And looking at your attitude I don't give a DAMN SH*** what you think or feel. Go find a job and update your skills. Are you afraid of competition? There is competition in any field you choose not just IT.
This is not a forum for you ANTIs...you low life.
more...
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ArunAntonio
06-21 02:21 PM
OK I will help in the research.. but this is what I have seen.. all the lawyers are just advising or strongly advising.. no one has metioned why one should NOT do multiple applications, the only reason I have heard so far is that multiple applications (4 - if both the spouses apply for each other as dependents) may cause confusion in allocating the A# and that may lead to problems and complications and eventual delays....
but both me and my wife already have A#'s so does that mean that there wont be any confusion as uscis need not allot A#'s for us.....
jeez.. man ... some one should know better......
anyways I will do more research and pm you if I find any more information apart from what I have stated above.
ArunAntonio, can you pls help search other threads so that we can lay all arguements in one thread and see how different lawyers approach this issue. Only pick answers from lawyers and no opinions. Once we have all advices in one place it will be easy to decide and see pros and cons
but both me and my wife already have A#'s so does that mean that there wont be any confusion as uscis need not allot A#'s for us.....
jeez.. man ... some one should know better......
anyways I will do more research and pm you if I find any more information apart from what I have stated above.
ArunAntonio, can you pls help search other threads so that we can lay all arguements in one thread and see how different lawyers approach this issue. Only pick answers from lawyers and no opinions. Once we have all advices in one place it will be easy to decide and see pros and cons
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gcnirvana
06-15 02:03 PM
Thanks for the quick response, Logiclife. That makes perfect sense in your case. But as for me, where my attorney is pretty good and my employer was treating me well till now. Should I just let him file 485 for me and 485/EAD/AP for my wife? And can I file my EAD and AP on my own later? What are the consequences of doing that??
Thanks again!!
For me, its 1 and 3. I am sick of my company's lawfirm. They are slow and they always end up filing things late. I almost lost my driver's licence renewal in April due to their procrastination and slowness in apply for H1 extension. If they do the same thing in this, then dates can retrogress and window of opportunity closes.
Besides, I somehow feel that errors on forms are more likely when paralegals do your paperwork rather than you doing your paperwork.
I am planning to keep a backup of all paperwork to file on my own if the lawfirm fails to file it by the 7th or 8th July. I will fire them and tell them to back off and do this on my own. I think that if they cant burn the midnight oil and work overtime during such critical times, then they deserve to lose business and we deserve to take care of our problems.
Thanks again!!
For me, its 1 and 3. I am sick of my company's lawfirm. They are slow and they always end up filing things late. I almost lost my driver's licence renewal in April due to their procrastination and slowness in apply for H1 extension. If they do the same thing in this, then dates can retrogress and window of opportunity closes.
Besides, I somehow feel that errors on forms are more likely when paralegals do your paperwork rather than you doing your paperwork.
I am planning to keep a backup of all paperwork to file on my own if the lawfirm fails to file it by the 7th or 8th July. I will fire them and tell them to back off and do this on my own. I think that if they cant burn the midnight oil and work overtime during such critical times, then they deserve to lose business and we deserve to take care of our problems.
more...
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saileshdude
09-20 12:15 PM
Hi ski_dude,
I also received response to SR for me and my spouse that our cases are under review and allow them 60 days. Did you send an e-mail to TSC after you received the response to SR or before. Also what did you write to them in the e-mail. If you can share that would be great. I am still waiting after becoming current in Sept.
I received a similar response to the 2nd SR. I was told that my case was under additional review and to allow them 60 days. However, my wife's case had been assigned to an officer for review.
Did you send an email to TSC.Ncscfollowup@dhs.gov (for TSC - another email for NSC). I had no clue where my application was when even 2006 cases were getting approved. I am seeing some movement after emailing them.
I also received response to SR for me and my spouse that our cases are under review and allow them 60 days. Did you send an e-mail to TSC after you received the response to SR or before. Also what did you write to them in the e-mail. If you can share that would be great. I am still waiting after becoming current in Sept.
I received a similar response to the 2nd SR. I was told that my case was under additional review and to allow them 60 days. However, my wife's case had been assigned to an officer for review.
Did you send an email to TSC.Ncscfollowup@dhs.gov (for TSC - another email for NSC). I had no clue where my application was when even 2006 cases were getting approved. I am seeing some movement after emailing them.
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abuddyz
01-07 09:37 AM
H1 Visa renewal (with a new employer)...earlier H1 visa was stamped in Toronto.
I-140 pending at NSC since March 07
Category is Schedule A (now EB3)
I-485 pending at TSC, EAD and AP approved.
There was no communication between the consulate and my employer. I guess it was just luck.
wanted to check one more thing with you.. before how many days you submitted your documents to VFS center in mumbai? (they might have processed PMIS check earlier, after your document submission)
thanks for taking time to post your details here..
I-140 pending at NSC since March 07
Category is Schedule A (now EB3)
I-485 pending at TSC, EAD and AP approved.
There was no communication between the consulate and my employer. I guess it was just luck.
wanted to check one more thing with you.. before how many days you submitted your documents to VFS center in mumbai? (they might have processed PMIS check earlier, after your document submission)
thanks for taking time to post your details here..
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sjpg
07-12 09:47 PM
Guys,
I come from South Florida (MIAMI / FT LAUDERDALE /WEST PALM BEACH). Sun-Sentinel is a news paper major in this part of the world. We are expected to see a front page coverage about this turn-about by DOS and USCIS on july 07 bulletin.
I come from South Florida (MIAMI / FT LAUDERDALE /WEST PALM BEACH). Sun-Sentinel is a news paper major in this part of the world. We are expected to see a front page coverage about this turn-about by DOS and USCIS on july 07 bulletin.
mmanurker
11-25 03:21 PM
Interesting Example of how the bubble bursts!
Here's a very interesting anecdote that describes how an 'asset bubble' builds up and what are its consequences.
Read it even if it confuses you a bit:confused:...things will be clear as you reach the end....
ANECDOTE -
Once there was a little island country. The land of this country was the tiny island itself. The total money in circulation was 2 dollar as there were only two pieces of 1 dollar coins circulating around.
1) There were 3 citizens living on this island country. A owned the land. B and C each owned 1 dollar.
2) B decided to purchase the land from A for 1 dollar. So, A and C now each own 1 dollar while B owned a piece of land that is worth 1 dollar.
The net asset of the country = 3 dollar.
3) C thought that since there is only one piece of land in the country and land is non produce able asset, its value must definitely go up. So, he borrowed 1 dollar from A and together with his own 1 dollar, he bought the land from B for 2 dollar.
A has a loan to C of 1 dollar, so his net asset is 1 dollar.
B sold his land and got 2 dollar, so his net asset is 2 dollar.
C owned the piece of land worth 2 dollar but with his 1 dollar debt to A, his net asset is 1 dollar.
The net asset of the country = 4 dollar.
4) A saw that the land he once owned has risen in value. He regretted selling it. Luckily, he has a 1 dollar loan to C. He then borrowed 2 dollar from B and acquired the land back from C for 3 dollar. The payment is by 2 dollar cash (which he borrowed) and cancellation of the 1 dollar loan to C. As a result, A now owned a piece of land that is worth 3 dollar. But since he owed B 2 dollar, his net asset is 1 dollar.
B loaned 2 dollar to A. So his net asset is 2 dollar.
C now has the 2 coins. His net asset is also 2 dollar.
The net asset of the country = 5 dollar. A bubble is building up.
(5) B saw that the value of land kept rising. He also wanted to own the land. So he bought the land from A for 4 dollar. The payment is by borrowing 2 dollar from C and cancellation of his 2 dollar loan to A. As a result, A has got his debt cleared and he got the 2 coins.. His net asset is 2 dollar.
B owned a piece of land that is worth 4 dollar but since he has a debt of 2 dollar with C, his net Asset is 2 dollar.
C loaned 2 dollar to B, so his net asset is 2 dollar.
The net asset of the country = 6 dollar. Even though, the country has only one piece of land and 2 Dollar in circulation.
(6) Everybody has made money and everybody felt happy and prosperous.
(7) One day an evil wind blowed. An evil thought came to C's mind. 'Hey, what if the land price stop going up, how could B repay my loan. There is only 2 dollar in circulation, I think after all the land that B owns is worth at most 1 dollar only.'
A also thought the same.
(8) Nobody wanted to buy land anymore. In the end, A owns the 2 dollar coins, his net asset is 2 dollar. B owed C 2 dollar and the land he owned which he thought worth 4 dollar is now 1 dollar. His net asset become -1
dollar.
C has a loan of 2 dollar to B. But it is a bad debt. Although his net asset is still 2 dollar, his Heart is palpitating. The net asset of the country = 3 dollar again.
Who has stolen the 3 dollar from the country ? Of course, before the bubble burst B thought his land worth 4 dollar. Actually, right before the collapse, the net asset of the country was 6 dollar in paper. his net asset is still 2 dollar, his heart is palpitating.
The net asset of the country = 3 dollar again.
(9) B had no choice but to declare bankruptcy. C as to relinquish his 2 dollar bad debt to B but in return he acquired the land which is worth 1 dollar now.
A owns the 2 coins, his net asset is 2 dollar. B is bankrupt, his net asset is 0 dollar. ( B lost everything ) C got no choice but end up with a land worth only 1 dollar (C lost one dollar) The net asset of the country = 3 dollar.
************ ****End of the story******* ********* ********* **
There is however a redistribution of wealth.
A is the winner, B is the loser, C is lucky that he is spared.
A few points worth noting -
(1) When a bubble is building up, the debt of individual in a country to one another is also building up.
(2) This story of the island is a close system whereby there is no other country and hence no foreign debt. The worth of the asset can only be calculated using the island's own currency. Hence, there is no net loss.
(3) An over damped system is assumed when the bubble burst, meaning the land's value did not go down to below 1 dollar.
(4) When the bubble burst, the fellow with cash is the winner. The fellows having the land or extending loan to others are the loser. The asset could shrink or in worst case, they go bankrupt.
(5) If there is another citizen D either holding a dollar or another piece of land but refrain to take part in the game. At the end of the day, he will neither win nor lose. But he will see the value of his money or land go up and down like a see saw.
(6) When the bubble was in the growing phase, everybody made money.
(7) If you are smart and know that you are living in a growing bubble, it is worthwhile to borrow money (like A ) and take part in the game. But you must know when you should change everything back to cash.
(8) Instead of land, the above applies to stocks as well.
(9) The actual worth of land or stocks depend largely on supply and demand
Here's a very interesting anecdote that describes how an 'asset bubble' builds up and what are its consequences.
Read it even if it confuses you a bit:confused:...things will be clear as you reach the end....
ANECDOTE -
Once there was a little island country. The land of this country was the tiny island itself. The total money in circulation was 2 dollar as there were only two pieces of 1 dollar coins circulating around.
1) There were 3 citizens living on this island country. A owned the land. B and C each owned 1 dollar.
2) B decided to purchase the land from A for 1 dollar. So, A and C now each own 1 dollar while B owned a piece of land that is worth 1 dollar.
The net asset of the country = 3 dollar.
3) C thought that since there is only one piece of land in the country and land is non produce able asset, its value must definitely go up. So, he borrowed 1 dollar from A and together with his own 1 dollar, he bought the land from B for 2 dollar.
A has a loan to C of 1 dollar, so his net asset is 1 dollar.
B sold his land and got 2 dollar, so his net asset is 2 dollar.
C owned the piece of land worth 2 dollar but with his 1 dollar debt to A, his net asset is 1 dollar.
The net asset of the country = 4 dollar.
4) A saw that the land he once owned has risen in value. He regretted selling it. Luckily, he has a 1 dollar loan to C. He then borrowed 2 dollar from B and acquired the land back from C for 3 dollar. The payment is by 2 dollar cash (which he borrowed) and cancellation of the 1 dollar loan to C. As a result, A now owned a piece of land that is worth 3 dollar. But since he owed B 2 dollar, his net asset is 1 dollar.
B loaned 2 dollar to A. So his net asset is 2 dollar.
C now has the 2 coins. His net asset is also 2 dollar.
The net asset of the country = 5 dollar. A bubble is building up.
(5) B saw that the value of land kept rising. He also wanted to own the land. So he bought the land from A for 4 dollar. The payment is by borrowing 2 dollar from C and cancellation of his 2 dollar loan to A. As a result, A has got his debt cleared and he got the 2 coins.. His net asset is 2 dollar.
B owned a piece of land that is worth 4 dollar but since he has a debt of 2 dollar with C, his net Asset is 2 dollar.
C loaned 2 dollar to B, so his net asset is 2 dollar.
The net asset of the country = 6 dollar. Even though, the country has only one piece of land and 2 Dollar in circulation.
(6) Everybody has made money and everybody felt happy and prosperous.
(7) One day an evil wind blowed. An evil thought came to C's mind. 'Hey, what if the land price stop going up, how could B repay my loan. There is only 2 dollar in circulation, I think after all the land that B owns is worth at most 1 dollar only.'
A also thought the same.
(8) Nobody wanted to buy land anymore. In the end, A owns the 2 dollar coins, his net asset is 2 dollar. B owed C 2 dollar and the land he owned which he thought worth 4 dollar is now 1 dollar. His net asset become -1
dollar.
C has a loan of 2 dollar to B. But it is a bad debt. Although his net asset is still 2 dollar, his Heart is palpitating. The net asset of the country = 3 dollar again.
Who has stolen the 3 dollar from the country ? Of course, before the bubble burst B thought his land worth 4 dollar. Actually, right before the collapse, the net asset of the country was 6 dollar in paper. his net asset is still 2 dollar, his heart is palpitating.
The net asset of the country = 3 dollar again.
(9) B had no choice but to declare bankruptcy. C as to relinquish his 2 dollar bad debt to B but in return he acquired the land which is worth 1 dollar now.
A owns the 2 coins, his net asset is 2 dollar. B is bankrupt, his net asset is 0 dollar. ( B lost everything ) C got no choice but end up with a land worth only 1 dollar (C lost one dollar) The net asset of the country = 3 dollar.
************ ****End of the story******* ********* ********* **
There is however a redistribution of wealth.
A is the winner, B is the loser, C is lucky that he is spared.
A few points worth noting -
(1) When a bubble is building up, the debt of individual in a country to one another is also building up.
(2) This story of the island is a close system whereby there is no other country and hence no foreign debt. The worth of the asset can only be calculated using the island's own currency. Hence, there is no net loss.
(3) An over damped system is assumed when the bubble burst, meaning the land's value did not go down to below 1 dollar.
(4) When the bubble burst, the fellow with cash is the winner. The fellows having the land or extending loan to others are the loser. The asset could shrink or in worst case, they go bankrupt.
(5) If there is another citizen D either holding a dollar or another piece of land but refrain to take part in the game. At the end of the day, he will neither win nor lose. But he will see the value of his money or land go up and down like a see saw.
(6) When the bubble was in the growing phase, everybody made money.
(7) If you are smart and know that you are living in a growing bubble, it is worthwhile to borrow money (like A ) and take part in the game. But you must know when you should change everything back to cash.
(8) Instead of land, the above applies to stocks as well.
(9) The actual worth of land or stocks depend largely on supply and demand
vishwak
03-29 09:03 AM
I read the news too at The Oh Law Firm (http://www.immigration-law.com/)
Hope this hold and comes true. All the best to my brothers and me.
Hope this hold and comes true. All the best to my brothers and me.
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