karanp25
07-11 01:50 PM
I agree 100%.
again no one can explain the ridiculous date movements by DOS...so there can be no reason for this..Its just that someone saw numbers being wasted...and they randomly applied them to EB2...Now as for getting approvals for all those that are current now...forget it ...since that is USCIS and that is a whole different Animal (a lazy one!!)
again no one can explain the ridiculous date movements by DOS...so there can be no reason for this..Its just that someone saw numbers being wasted...and they randomly applied them to EB2...Now as for getting approvals for all those that are current now...forget it ...since that is USCIS and that is a whole different Animal (a lazy one!!)
wallpaper tarjeta cristianas de
kutra
03-05 06:26 PM
I think that everybody has the right to express their opinion.
Anything else is sensorship
good luck to all
That is true. But I would rather bicker/argue among ourselves in our closed community and not in front of the public. I withdrew my post because singhsa3 is inviting media and other outlets to view this poll. I see no good coming out of washing our dirty linen in public.
I am neither convinced by singhsa3's arguments and nor do I buy into the whole "potential-to-buy-houses" angle (and I got red-dotted for all my previous posts, but I don't care), but if he's willing to take the efforts because he believes in what he's doing, then I don't have to be the all-freedom-of-speech guy.
So long as singhsa3's not pledging that I and my wife will buy our house #2 and house #3 only because USCIS gives us green cards, I am fine with continuing with my life and work. :)
Anything else is sensorship
good luck to all
That is true. But I would rather bicker/argue among ourselves in our closed community and not in front of the public. I withdrew my post because singhsa3 is inviting media and other outlets to view this poll. I see no good coming out of washing our dirty linen in public.
I am neither convinced by singhsa3's arguments and nor do I buy into the whole "potential-to-buy-houses" angle (and I got red-dotted for all my previous posts, but I don't care), but if he's willing to take the efforts because he believes in what he's doing, then I don't have to be the all-freedom-of-speech guy.
So long as singhsa3's not pledging that I and my wife will buy our house #2 and house #3 only because USCIS gives us green cards, I am fine with continuing with my life and work. :)
sanju
02-19 02:58 PM
Looks like lots of >5 years people here. :D
It is my feeling that "Illegals>5 years" should not be preferred over "legals<5 years".
really? so you mean illegals are not humans? Or just because you are not in the category, you think only you deserve to live a "respectable" "decent" life, and others should wait in line until you are satisfied. That way of looking at things is exactly the way Citizens look at green cards, people will green card look at non-green holders, people with H1/L1 look at illegals. And that behavior or way of looking at others can described in one phrase - "I'm better than you." And when rules are changed, and we can no longer subscribe t that "false" notion of "I'm better than you.", you think there is something wrong with the bill.
What is wrong with the bill that gives everything that you want, and in addition to it, gives that "illegal alien" what he deserves, not on the grounds of a degree, which is merely a piece of paper, but on the grounds of how humans ought to treat other humans? This bill gives everything that legal skilled community wants, but idiots could not stop beating down on something being given to someone else. That's why the degree(S) that we have is nothing more than garbage, because even after acquiring these degrees, we have not acquired the KNOWLEDGE of how to treat others.
You do what you do and I do what I do.
One more thing, you can't do ANYTHING, other than coming to this anonymous forum and beating down the drum of righteousness, as if everything you have done is right, and others, who did no do the things the same way are somehow daemons. BULL.
.
It is my feeling that "Illegals>5 years" should not be preferred over "legals<5 years".
really? so you mean illegals are not humans? Or just because you are not in the category, you think only you deserve to live a "respectable" "decent" life, and others should wait in line until you are satisfied. That way of looking at things is exactly the way Citizens look at green cards, people will green card look at non-green holders, people with H1/L1 look at illegals. And that behavior or way of looking at others can described in one phrase - "I'm better than you." And when rules are changed, and we can no longer subscribe t that "false" notion of "I'm better than you.", you think there is something wrong with the bill.
What is wrong with the bill that gives everything that you want, and in addition to it, gives that "illegal alien" what he deserves, not on the grounds of a degree, which is merely a piece of paper, but on the grounds of how humans ought to treat other humans? This bill gives everything that legal skilled community wants, but idiots could not stop beating down on something being given to someone else. That's why the degree(S) that we have is nothing more than garbage, because even after acquiring these degrees, we have not acquired the KNOWLEDGE of how to treat others.
You do what you do and I do what I do.
One more thing, you can't do ANYTHING, other than coming to this anonymous forum and beating down the drum of righteousness, as if everything you have done is right, and others, who did no do the things the same way are somehow daemons. BULL.
.
2011 cristianos de amor.
masouds
02-15 04:24 PM
Are you sure this is the reason why they have per country limits :confused:
Or you dont want that way :D
Well, I do have a vested interest in maintaining status quo, at least with regard to the per country caps. :)
But, working in one of the Valley companies, I see a lot of people from India and China who just don't mix with rest of the people, say, from Poland or Germany or France or Iran. US (the whole government, including USCIS) likes the idea of 'Melting pot' when it comes to immigration. When you melt a lot of metals with each other, you don't end up with a fragmented alloy, since you've capped the amount of each metal in your pot. That is how you get 'Little Italy's and 'China Town's and the latest one in San Jose, CA: 'Saigon Business district'
Or you dont want that way :D
Well, I do have a vested interest in maintaining status quo, at least with regard to the per country caps. :)
But, working in one of the Valley companies, I see a lot of people from India and China who just don't mix with rest of the people, say, from Poland or Germany or France or Iran. US (the whole government, including USCIS) likes the idea of 'Melting pot' when it comes to immigration. When you melt a lot of metals with each other, you don't end up with a fragmented alloy, since you've capped the amount of each metal in your pot. That is how you get 'Little Italy's and 'China Town's and the latest one in San Jose, CA: 'Saigon Business district'
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mhathi
06-11 11:52 AM
Sent early this morning, then resent after Pappu's message.
logiclife
04-20 02:22 PM
I will be coming with my other friend. We are commuting from Tracy / Stockton area. Anybody bringing the banners / hand signs to support STRIVE ACT?
Maybe no banners or signs because this is a town-hall style meeting and not a rally. I'll let you know if its ok to do that.
But surely, it would be good if you bring a sign/banner saying "www.immigrationvoice.org" which would help us get more coverage is its caught by the media.
Maybe no banners or signs because this is a town-hall style meeting and not a rally. I'll let you know if its ok to do that.
But surely, it would be good if you bring a sign/banner saying "www.immigrationvoice.org" which would help us get more coverage is its caught by the media.
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onemorecame
09-17 01:49 PM
I am still waiting called 800 number they said wait for 15 days from the day RFE issued?
I am in touch with my attorney.. not sure what going on... :confused:
I am in touch with my attorney.. not sure what going on... :confused:
2010 mensajes de amor cristianos.
veereddy
06-11 12:49 PM
Sent
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kondur_007
04-10 03:44 PM
Thanks Kondur. That was a very good presentation of the numbers. I very much appreciate it.
Now,
1. Why did EB1 last year needed spillover visas, although it was current all the time? If a category is current, isn't that it has less demand than allocated numbers?
2. As per May bulletin, EB4 might need a cut off. So we cannot expect any spillover from EB4. So that is clear. Now the spillover chances are from EB5, EB2 ROW and EB1(?). I am including EB1 because, given the current economy over the past year, should there be a better possibility of more spillover from EB2 ROW and EB1 compared to last year?
3. Also why are the total EB numbers different in different fiscal years (e.g., 141020 in FY2009, 162949 in FY 2008 and 154497 in FY2007)? In FYs 2007 and 2008 did the extra visas come from Family based while it did not for FY 2009? If so, why is it so?
4. Based on Pending 485 data of March 2010, I barely see few hundred EB4s. And hardly considerable number of EB1s. What's going on? If we go by this data, we should be getting good chunk of spillover numbers...
http://www.uscis.gov/USCIS/Green%20Card/Green%20Card%20Through%20a%20Job/Employment%20Based%20I-485%20Pending%20Inventory-Total%203-8-2010.pdf
Thanks,
Here is what I think; possible answers/comments. I am not an expert but am thinking following:
1. Any category being "current" is based on "DOS's guesstimate" based on demand numbers they receive and so it is never "perfect". So yes, you are true that technically EB1 should be retrogressed "slightly", but considering the small number of spillover (now called fall down numbers) it used, it may not have been able to be predicted prior to the end of fiscal year.
2. That is the biggest hope and assumption that there will be more fall down from EB5 and EB1 due to "economy". Caveat is, more and more people are trying to switch to "current" categories and so actual usage may not be commensurate with "economy". We have never been given any "usage data". So everything is a pure guess on this front. Looking at data, I honestly do not see any difference in number of EB1 cases from 2008-2009-2010.
3. Yes, it is due to "spillover" from Family based category. (This is where DOS is using the word "spillover" and any visa number that go from one EB to another EB category, they all it "fall across" and "fall down"). These numbers used to be higher before and now lower as they are more efficient in using as many numbers as possible for a particular category.
4. Pending 485 data is extremely deceptive for "current" categories. Look at the approval timeframe of EB2 ROW or EB1 cases; majority of them are approved before ever counted as "pending". Remember. "pending cases" DO NOT reflect "usage".
The main thing missing in all these is the "USAGE", this should be a very easy information that can be made available by DOS, but they have not. If I had one "wish" to get one piece of info; would be this: "number of visa used in each category every month and YTD". Without that info, no prediction of spillover/fall down-across is ever possible.
Now,
1. Why did EB1 last year needed spillover visas, although it was current all the time? If a category is current, isn't that it has less demand than allocated numbers?
2. As per May bulletin, EB4 might need a cut off. So we cannot expect any spillover from EB4. So that is clear. Now the spillover chances are from EB5, EB2 ROW and EB1(?). I am including EB1 because, given the current economy over the past year, should there be a better possibility of more spillover from EB2 ROW and EB1 compared to last year?
3. Also why are the total EB numbers different in different fiscal years (e.g., 141020 in FY2009, 162949 in FY 2008 and 154497 in FY2007)? In FYs 2007 and 2008 did the extra visas come from Family based while it did not for FY 2009? If so, why is it so?
4. Based on Pending 485 data of March 2010, I barely see few hundred EB4s. And hardly considerable number of EB1s. What's going on? If we go by this data, we should be getting good chunk of spillover numbers...
http://www.uscis.gov/USCIS/Green%20Card/Green%20Card%20Through%20a%20Job/Employment%20Based%20I-485%20Pending%20Inventory-Total%203-8-2010.pdf
Thanks,
Here is what I think; possible answers/comments. I am not an expert but am thinking following:
1. Any category being "current" is based on "DOS's guesstimate" based on demand numbers they receive and so it is never "perfect". So yes, you are true that technically EB1 should be retrogressed "slightly", but considering the small number of spillover (now called fall down numbers) it used, it may not have been able to be predicted prior to the end of fiscal year.
2. That is the biggest hope and assumption that there will be more fall down from EB5 and EB1 due to "economy". Caveat is, more and more people are trying to switch to "current" categories and so actual usage may not be commensurate with "economy". We have never been given any "usage data". So everything is a pure guess on this front. Looking at data, I honestly do not see any difference in number of EB1 cases from 2008-2009-2010.
3. Yes, it is due to "spillover" from Family based category. (This is where DOS is using the word "spillover" and any visa number that go from one EB to another EB category, they all it "fall across" and "fall down"). These numbers used to be higher before and now lower as they are more efficient in using as many numbers as possible for a particular category.
4. Pending 485 data is extremely deceptive for "current" categories. Look at the approval timeframe of EB2 ROW or EB1 cases; majority of them are approved before ever counted as "pending". Remember. "pending cases" DO NOT reflect "usage".
The main thing missing in all these is the "USAGE", this should be a very easy information that can be made available by DOS, but they have not. If I had one "wish" to get one piece of info; would be this: "number of visa used in each category every month and YTD". Without that info, no prediction of spillover/fall down-across is ever possible.
hair mensajes cristianos de amor.
amrutasanjiv8
12-21 10:30 PM
Hi ,
I have H1B from my current company A. My fiance is having no visa so he is in India. He is in IT hardware field.....
Also I am currently searching for jobs in IT hardware field in USA but as he is not in USA so no luck till now.....
1) I am thinking of bringing him in USA after marriage on H4...the reason is it seems to be very difficult to find job in USA from India with H1 sponsorship ...As I have H1 , my fiance can have H4....On H4 he can not work in USA or apply for jobs in USA....plz confirm...
2) So I am thinking of changing H1 to L1 by changing my current job .....Can I ask my new employer to sponsor L1.....or shud I ask my present employer to sponsor L1....what will be good for us?
3) how much time H4 processing takes?
3) If I get L1 from new/existing employer then will H4 of my dependent will get changed to L2?
4) How much time does it take to process L1 and L2...
5) Can a person on L1 change job in USA?
kindly let me know your views as it is very much urgent .......
Thanks,
Amruta
I have H1B from my current company A. My fiance is having no visa so he is in India. He is in IT hardware field.....
Also I am currently searching for jobs in IT hardware field in USA but as he is not in USA so no luck till now.....
1) I am thinking of bringing him in USA after marriage on H4...the reason is it seems to be very difficult to find job in USA from India with H1 sponsorship ...As I have H1 , my fiance can have H4....On H4 he can not work in USA or apply for jobs in USA....plz confirm...
2) So I am thinking of changing H1 to L1 by changing my current job .....Can I ask my new employer to sponsor L1.....or shud I ask my present employer to sponsor L1....what will be good for us?
3) how much time H4 processing takes?
3) If I get L1 from new/existing employer then will H4 of my dependent will get changed to L2?
4) How much time does it take to process L1 and L2...
5) Can a person on L1 change job in USA?
kindly let me know your views as it is very much urgent .......
Thanks,
Amruta
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WAIT_FOR_EVER_GC
07-13 07:46 PM
just spoke to our firms Immigration lawyer, per them, we will see more movement in Aug Bulletin and in Sept Bulletin we will see Retrogression back to May/aug 2005 for EB2
reasoning was Oct # would be released so they r trying to capture as many # as they can
I am april 2006 and it seems it will be a 1 yr wait foir me now.
This is completely bullshit...... I bet on it that the dates will never come back to Augst 2005.
He must have said Aug 2006 not Aug 2005.
Whoever the lawyer is, he has no idea of how cutoff dates are calculated
reasoning was Oct # would be released so they r trying to capture as many # as they can
I am april 2006 and it seems it will be a 1 yr wait foir me now.
This is completely bullshit...... I bet on it that the dates will never come back to Augst 2005.
He must have said Aug 2006 not Aug 2005.
Whoever the lawyer is, he has no idea of how cutoff dates are calculated
hot mensajes cristianos de amor.
sundevil
06-12 02:58 PM
If people think that after CIR fails, we will have a better chance of getting favorable provisions with some other Bill or on coat tails of appropriation bills, it could be a risky gamble.
However, looking at the mood of Senate there is a very good chance that post-CIR we might be thrown a curve ball with some hard line H1B restrictions and fee increases extracted from almost passed CIR. So opposing CIR due to H1 alone is not the best strategy.
CIR is on the table because there are lot of interests driving its existence. If Compete America and us(IV) cannot drive in a small amendment into a popular bill like this, it would be a big blow. Is there enough bite in the coalition to create our own bill or fight an anti-H1 wave out there? That's up for judgement.
My point is, please do not assume H1B status quo will stay that way even if CIR fails. Like someone pointed out in these forums, big Corporations might enlist these anti-consulting restrictions/fee increases and use as compromise to increase H1 numbers(even post CIR).
And we thought life was tough now, imagine paying 10K for every H1 extension and not being able to consult and status quo on current GC system still place. Thats a hair raising thought for me.
However, looking at the mood of Senate there is a very good chance that post-CIR we might be thrown a curve ball with some hard line H1B restrictions and fee increases extracted from almost passed CIR. So opposing CIR due to H1 alone is not the best strategy.
CIR is on the table because there are lot of interests driving its existence. If Compete America and us(IV) cannot drive in a small amendment into a popular bill like this, it would be a big blow. Is there enough bite in the coalition to create our own bill or fight an anti-H1 wave out there? That's up for judgement.
My point is, please do not assume H1B status quo will stay that way even if CIR fails. Like someone pointed out in these forums, big Corporations might enlist these anti-consulting restrictions/fee increases and use as compromise to increase H1 numbers(even post CIR).
And we thought life was tough now, imagine paying 10K for every H1 extension and not being able to consult and status quo on current GC system still place. Thats a hair raising thought for me.
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delax
07-19 08:55 PM
We need a realistic estimate of how many applications are pending with PD in 2004, which really seems like the bottleneck. Another thing to bear in mind is the conversion from EB3->EB2. That is also going to hinder the movement of EB2. There are a lot of people trying to use that route.
Here you go - conversion should not impact this as the number of LC approvals remains the same:
Here are all the LC approvals for India in the last seven years.
Year, Total LC Approved, Total India
2007 85112 24573
2006 79782 22298
2005 6133 1350
2004 43582 No Info
2003 62912 No Info
2002 79784 No Info
2001 77921 No Info
2000 70204 No Info
Lets assume about 25% of pre-PERM LCs are India based on post-PERM data. Thus for fiscal 2004 (Oct 2003 thru Sep 2004) the total LC number is 43,852. Assume 25% of that to be India based on PERM data. That gives about 11,000 India LCs in 2004 alone (All EB categories combined). If you assume an average of 2.5 dependents then the number of visas required for all India EB categories for 2004 is 27,500 (11,000*2.5). The regular quota for EB2 and EB3 combined is only about 9,800. That means 17,700 visas have to come from somewhere. I dont think those many visas are remaining for this year. Be prepared to see FIFO thrown under the bus and approvals with PDs that are all over the place. Please critique this analysis without piling on. Thoughts?
Here you go - conversion should not impact this as the number of LC approvals remains the same:
Here are all the LC approvals for India in the last seven years.
Year, Total LC Approved, Total India
2007 85112 24573
2006 79782 22298
2005 6133 1350
2004 43582 No Info
2003 62912 No Info
2002 79784 No Info
2001 77921 No Info
2000 70204 No Info
Lets assume about 25% of pre-PERM LCs are India based on post-PERM data. Thus for fiscal 2004 (Oct 2003 thru Sep 2004) the total LC number is 43,852. Assume 25% of that to be India based on PERM data. That gives about 11,000 India LCs in 2004 alone (All EB categories combined). If you assume an average of 2.5 dependents then the number of visas required for all India EB categories for 2004 is 27,500 (11,000*2.5). The regular quota for EB2 and EB3 combined is only about 9,800. That means 17,700 visas have to come from somewhere. I dont think those many visas are remaining for this year. Be prepared to see FIFO thrown under the bus and approvals with PDs that are all over the place. Please critique this analysis without piling on. Thoughts?
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kumar1
12-10 03:24 PM
Do some population control in India and China, that would automatically fix the issue of retrogression. We are simply too many and we have clogged the system real bad. every 6th person on the face of this earth is Indian.
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sugaur
08-22 01:35 AM
Do you even know what countries comprise the "Middle East"? Sounds like your knowldege of geography is as deep as that of the US immigration laws. A testament to canadian educations system.
Majority of you canadians are descendents of cowards who sided with the brits during the American revolution. You come here breaking all immigration laws and have the audacity to suggest that you are better than us, who have been playing by the rules all along! Whatever our faults may be , we know and respect the laws of the country we hope to be citizens of one day.
Majority of you canadians are descendents of cowards who sided with the brits during the American revolution. You come here breaking all immigration laws and have the audacity to suggest that you are better than us, who have been playing by the rules all along! Whatever our faults may be , we know and respect the laws of the country we hope to be citizens of one day.
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senthil1
02-19 12:28 AM
What do you wish? You need gc the moment you enter the country? If anyone who stays 5 years get green card.That is excellent if legal or illegal immigrant. This is apart from 140K regular quota. This will reduce backlog substantially.
If you are lazy enough to contact your representative and Obama, you should not complain for not getting your voice heard. Each and every email matter. Also contact Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee [D, TX-18] on her website. contact all. It wont take 5 minutes.
Dear (Congressman/woman, Pres. Obama):
Recently an immigration bill was presented in the congress. The HR 264 is embarrassing for legal immigrants.
1) People who are illegal here for more than 5 years will get green card/path to citizenship but people who are legally here for 4 years and 11 months gets nothing.
2) HR 264 says "continuous presence of 5 years". Of course illegal immigrants can't leave the country and they will fulfill this requirement, but legal immigrants can leave country so might have left country for even 3 or 4 months in last 5-6 years to visit home country or any other reason including business. Although brief discontinuity is said to be okay but what if some legal immigrant leave country to be his/her parents for 2 months in last 5 years? So, this continuous presence rule is tailor cut to include illegal immigrants and exclude legal immigrants.
Is this what law abiding get when they follow rules? I request you to make sure that legal immigrants are ahead of illegals in every way. An illegal should not be awarded for being in US for 5 years while a legal, law abiding, tax paying legal immigrant is offered nothing for being in US for 3 or 4 years.
Kind regards
(Your name)
https://writerep.house.gov/htbin/wrep_save
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/
Now click on the links above and copy paste this stuff there. IT IS IMPORTANT....
If you are lazy enough to contact your representative and Obama, you should not complain for not getting your voice heard. Each and every email matter. Also contact Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee [D, TX-18] on her website. contact all. It wont take 5 minutes.
Dear (Congressman/woman, Pres. Obama):
Recently an immigration bill was presented in the congress. The HR 264 is embarrassing for legal immigrants.
1) People who are illegal here for more than 5 years will get green card/path to citizenship but people who are legally here for 4 years and 11 months gets nothing.
2) HR 264 says "continuous presence of 5 years". Of course illegal immigrants can't leave the country and they will fulfill this requirement, but legal immigrants can leave country so might have left country for even 3 or 4 months in last 5-6 years to visit home country or any other reason including business. Although brief discontinuity is said to be okay but what if some legal immigrant leave country to be his/her parents for 2 months in last 5 years? So, this continuous presence rule is tailor cut to include illegal immigrants and exclude legal immigrants.
Is this what law abiding get when they follow rules? I request you to make sure that legal immigrants are ahead of illegals in every way. An illegal should not be awarded for being in US for 5 years while a legal, law abiding, tax paying legal immigrant is offered nothing for being in US for 3 or 4 years.
Kind regards
(Your name)
https://writerep.house.gov/htbin/wrep_save
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/
Now click on the links above and copy paste this stuff there. IT IS IMPORTANT....
more...
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waitin_toolong
08-15 04:38 PM
Please link it.
http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/bulletin/bulletin_3761.html
http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/bulletin/bulletin_3761.html
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CR1
04-16 08:56 AM
Thanks Vijay. Does anyone else have anything to add?
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BharatPremi
09-26 07:23 PM
[QUOTE=BharatPremi;173398]Hermione,
How confident are you to call them "Ignorant".... It could be very planned and calculative agenda. Writer writes in CNN. Never ever be ignorant about their tactful agenda, capacity and wilful application of the polity.[QUOTE]
Yeah, and everyone is out there to get you.
Honestly, I think it is a waste of time to try to educate Americans what is what in immigration system. We need to push for our issues by proving why it is a good thing for the country, and not get caught up in this vs that. OK, so you convince the editor that the rally was not about H1Bs. All he will do is wack the sentence about the rally out of the article, because now it does not refer to the topic of the article, which is about H1 visas. Would that be an achievement? Hardly.
I agree with you partially. It may not be achievement but at least readers will not be misinformed and become aware about our real agenda.
How confident are you to call them "Ignorant".... It could be very planned and calculative agenda. Writer writes in CNN. Never ever be ignorant about their tactful agenda, capacity and wilful application of the polity.[QUOTE]
Yeah, and everyone is out there to get you.
Honestly, I think it is a waste of time to try to educate Americans what is what in immigration system. We need to push for our issues by proving why it is a good thing for the country, and not get caught up in this vs that. OK, so you convince the editor that the rally was not about H1Bs. All he will do is wack the sentence about the rally out of the article, because now it does not refer to the topic of the article, which is about H1 visas. Would that be an achievement? Hardly.
I agree with you partially. It may not be achievement but at least readers will not be misinformed and become aware about our real agenda.
vishwak
02-09 01:49 PM
What exactly is this???
stldude
07-13 08:21 AM
Guys ! ! ! ! AT this stage let's take all the help we get from any possible source. Although i agree that Murthy is trying to stab in to the fame/sucess in this fabulous effort by IV, but it's better to add on more Voices to this cause...
The whole GC Seekercommunity knows that IV played a very big role in creating a public awareness and making people talk. Let's not bother commenting on Murthy's evil intentions...
The whole GC Seekercommunity knows that IV played a very big role in creating a public awareness and making people talk. Let's not bother commenting on Murthy's evil intentions...
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